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» Northern California Ford Owners     » Automotive   » General Talk   » I'm just about ready to move out of this state..... (Page 1)

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Author Topic: I'm just about ready to move out of this state.....
SLOWSN95
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How do you guys like this new proposal? Heres an article from the San Jose Mercury News..

http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_21095539/bay-area-drivers-could-pay-drive-each-mile


"Imagine being taxed a dollar for driving to the store. Commute to work? That'll be a few bucks more.

Is it crazy or the way of the future? The Bay Area is considering a long-range plan to become the first place in the nation to tax drivers for every mile they travel, with an average bill of up to $1,300 per year.

The proposal is a long way from becoming reality. But under the scenario, drivers would likely have to install GPS-like trackers on their cars to tally travel in the nine-county Bay Area, from freeways to neighborhood streets, with only low-income people exempted.

Transportation planners know they would have a tough time selling such a radical plan but argue the goal of the so-called VMT (vehicle miles traveled) tax is to reduce traffic and pollution while raising revenue needed to fill potholes and bolster public transit service.

"I don't want to say it's pie in the sky. A VMT charge is really an option for the future to be looked at and considered," said Randy Rentschler, spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Commission, the agency leading the effort. He said realistically the plan is so complex it might take a decade to implement if the public buys in.

Under the early proposal, the VMT tax could cost up to a dime per mile, or the cost may peak during rush hour and bottom out, perhaps to less than a penny per mile, when no one's on the roads.

"Are you kidding me?" said South Bay driver Kevin
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Spencer of Yellow Checker Cab. "It's ludicrous. Some of the families, blue-collar people just trying to make a living, could have to decide whether to pay their mortgage" or drive.

County supervisors and city council members from around the Bay Area, as members of the Metropolitan Transportation Commission and the Association of Bay Area Governments, are set Thursday to authorize a study of the proposal, though they haven't yet weighed in on the actual merits of a VMT tax. If approved, officials would likely need the OK from voters and the state Legislature.

But first, they'd have to overcome major concerns about Uncle Sam reaching deeper into your pocket and Big Brother looking over your shoulder. Experts generally think VMT taxes have merit but won't be realistic until the primary source of transportation funding -- taxes on each gallon of gas -- dries up.

"It really would be premature in the next five years to even think about trying something like this," said former presidential transportation adviser Bob Poole, who supports VMT taxes but called the Bay Area plan too "utopian" to be realistic. "There are a huge number of questions that need to be worked on."

Proponents from transit advocates to environmentalists to public policy planners say we need new thinking to reduce rush-hour traffic as the Bay Area grows and new ways to raise billions of dollars to strengthen a deteriorating transportation network.

"We can continue to have more and more potholes and have BART fall apart more frequently, or we can choose to invest in our common future," said Jeff Hobson, deputy director of Oakland-based TransForm, one of the nonprofits that first proposed the idea to the government agencies.

But drivers already fed up with rising gas prices, insurance premiums, parking fees and bridge tolls are likely to revolt against the plan, which hasn't gotten very far when proposed elsewhere in the country.

"It's a big fat no," said Jim Eyer, chair of the Alameda County Libertarian Party. "I'd suspect for various reason it wouldn't be very popular. Everybody already feels like they're over-taxed."

The VMT study is part of the long-term transportation and housing effort called Plan Bay Area, which also includes strategies like raising the Bay Bridge rush-hour toll from $6 to $8 and reducing the size of parking lots. The results are expected in December before the two agencies vote in April.

The court of public opinion, however, has often swiftly killed ideas to charge drivers more. In 2010, San Francisco supervisors quickly scrapped an idea to charge drivers a $6 fee to enter the city from the south after outrage over the plan spread like wildfire. Ideas to raise the gas tax by even miniscule amounts have failed time and again.

The logistics of the VMT tax are still being developed. Traditionally, test programs have featured tracking devices on cars that tally up the number of miles traveled with people paying regular bills, or payments based on odometer readings.

The VMT tax could raise up to $15 million daily, as Bay Area drivers combine to travel about 150 million miles each weekday, led by Santa Clara County (40 million miles) and Alameda County (30 million miles).

Communities in Oregon, Washington state and Atlanta plus a federally-funded-University of Iowa study have all tested VMT taxes in small pilot programs. The results have been encouraging, as drivers generally decreased their car travel. But the subjects were given a cash balance and lost money when they drove, and got to keep whatever was left over.

Around the world, cities like London, Stockholm and Singapore charge drivers to enter the city core, while others charge heavy trucks based on each mile traveled. Only the Dutch have gotten close to a universal tax on vehicle travel.

"Right now,'' Hobson said, "we are not paying for the results of our driving -- we're not paying for the health impacts of it, for the road repairs that we need to do."

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Posts: 2210 | From: 510/east bay | Registered: Mar 2008  |  :
v-town coupe
fordologist
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shit between that and the obamacare fuck it man, section and unemployment for life!!!

How do they expect folks to get ahead?

Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003  |  :
68dustin
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wow... [BS flag] how do these fucks come up with these ideas..

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Posts: 3946 | From: neverland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  :
v-town coupe
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Most folks Have to commute in order to afford better living. They act as if the Bay area is that bad. sure during rush hour it sucks but have they ever been to L.A.? traffic for no reason at 11pm. before they could honestly cast judgement on this, they need to have public transit cater to more communities! a lot of folks commute cause they have to! yeah if this becomes a reality I will be the first out this place!!

[ July 18, 2012, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: v-town coupe ]

Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003  |  :
NEIGHT
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quote:
Originally posted by 68dustin:
wow... [BS flag] how do these fucks come up with these ideas..

A middle school graduate can come up with better suggestions. Really charging a motherfucker for driving!?

Anyone wanna join my riot team?

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F*ck trump

Posts: 18464 | From: EA$T $IDE REDWOOD CITY | Registered: Nov 2008  |  :
KINGROY
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Don't worry about this passing. Oddball proposals come up all time. This won't even get the chance to get voted on.

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Posts: 1642 | From: Vallejo, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  :
Greasy
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They won't be able to make us install a GPS in our cars. Here in Dallas we have tollways, it's about .30 something cents a mile on the highways in certain areas, you don't get charged to drive surface streets. The highways here are incredibly nice, they also have the NTTA (North Texas Tollway Authority) they'll stop and change your flat, give you gas if you run out, setup a tow if needed.

If something like that where to happen in Cali it wouldn't be a bad thing, but to get charged wherever you drive is [BS flag]

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'93 Cobra-Coyote Powered
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Posts: 3272 | From: North Dallas | Registered: Jan 2005  |  :
REDLIGHTING
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I'll be the first one to disconnect my odometer

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Posts: 441 | From: sac | Registered: Sep 2011  |  :
LS1EATR
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quote:
Originally posted by REDLIGHTING:
I'll be the first one to disconnect my odometer

Lol +1

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Posts: 1193 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Apr 2003  |  :
Wolfie351
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When this was proposed before, it was to replace taxes on gas because it is very clear that the future of vehicles will be electric or extended range hybrids. The people who drive these cars pay ZERO taxes because they do not buy very much gas or none at all. I don't think it's fair for them not to pay their fare share that goes to road work. Also, if this were to replace a gas tax, those of us with gas guzzlers will actually pay less taxes because all cars will be equal. A car that gets 10mpg would be paying the same taxes as a hybrid.

But, with that said, if this were to be in ADDITION to gax taxes...then it's BS

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Posts: 1214 | From: South Bay | Registered: Dec 2001  |  :
9cobra7
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quote:
Originally posted by LS1EATR:
quote:
Originally posted by REDLIGHTING:
I'll be the first one to disconnect my odometer

Lol +1
Wouldn't do you any good if they put the gps on it like the article says.
They already got the HOV lanes up and running why wouldn't they do this? They'll just stop fixing the pot holes and let the roads slide like they've been doing for years.
This is going to happen at some point, MARK MY WORD. Little by little they will implement this into place and make up excuses and reasons to pass this agenda like they do everything else.
They snuck in the 700 billion bailout right at Christmas time when nobody was minding the store and ran out with the cash register full of money.
Remember that was voted out a couple times and it happened anyways, anybody remember that one? Good times!
[BS flag]

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Posts: 2633 | From: usa | Registered: May 2003  |  :
turbo50
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I'm about ready as well. Couple that with the corrupt justice system I was recently a victim of and its Florida time.

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I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME

Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006  |  :
cemelevu
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I could see this happening. Most new cars already have a gps type of system(gm-onstar, ford- sync, not sure of chrysler or the "foreign" cars), but look at the insurance companies too.... progressive has that gps tracker that you plug into your diagnosis port that tracks your driving habits to give you a discount..... not trying to spread more paranoia, just saying.....
Posts: 474 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  :
DIRTY SALLY
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this is never going to happen so why bitch about it [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Embarrassed] [Roll Eyes]

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Posts: 9145 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  :
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If they want to save some money Cut state ref's, Im just saying [Big Grin]
Posts: 179 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Nov 2007  |  :
Blind
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolfie351:
When this was proposed before, it was to replace taxes on gas because it is very clear that the future of vehicles will be electric or extended range hybrids. The people who drive these cars pay ZERO taxes because they do not buy very much gas or none at all. I don't think it's fair for them not to pay their fare share that goes to road work. Also, if this were to replace a gas tax, those of us with gas guzzlers will actually pay less taxes because all cars will be equal. A car that gets 10mpg would be paying the same taxes as a hybrid.

But, with that said, if this were to be in ADDITION to gax taxes...then it's BS

This is not true.

studies estimate that motor vehicle users pay an average of 2.3 cents per mile in user charges such as gas taxes, registration fees, and tolls. However, they impose 6.5 cents per mile in road service costs.

This 6.5 cents per mile represents costs for infrastructure--roadway acquisition, design and construction of roads, bridges, tunnels, etc., and maintenance of same. I don't believe it covers other, associated costs such as law enforcement, emergency services, etc.

the disparity between user fees and actual costs is even greater on local roads...which is the type of roads electric cars and alternative transportation is used more often on (short trips, electric cars, hybrids, buses, motorcycles, bikes, etc).

So, we have a shortfall of over 4 cents per mile in user fee revenues to cover the expenses of building and maintaining our roads.

Where does the money come from to make up the difference? It comes from the general tax rolls: property, income, and sales taxes. EVERYONE pays these taxes, so we're all contributing to the construction and upkeep of our roads, regardless of how much or how little we use them, or how much our particular vehicle imposes in costs on the system.

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Posts: 8521 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jul 2003  |  :
Z06-FTMFW
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All i have to say thank god I live in Reno, NV!

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Posts: 4016 | From: 916-sacramento | Registered: Aug 2003  |  :
v-town coupe
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quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
I'm about ready as well. Couple that with the corrupt justice system I was recently a victim of and its Florida time.

what happened dan, they screw you over on your accident feel free to pm me.
Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003  |  :
915.0gt
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Texas ftmfw, #1 state in the us for economic growth and freedoms. Only thing keeping me here is family. I've lived outside of ca and its like being in a totally different universe. Cost of living is wayyyyyyyyy cheaper and the cops actually give and diserve respect
Posts: 536 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  :
Wolfie351
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You said it exactly...the average motor vehicle user pays $x in taxes. Those of us who get lousy mileage pay way above that average. A car that gets 10mpg pays about $.065 a mile in taxes. An alternate method of tax enforcement would put everyone on equal ground which was my point. And, like I said, it is inevitable that there will be a shortage of funds when everyone moves towards alternative fueled vehicles. There WILL be a tax collection change when that happens and, to keep it fair, it shouldn't be an increase in gas taxation alone because a lot of cars won't be using gas.

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1985 Mustang GT: 351W, Griggs, Baer, etc etc

Posts: 1214 | From: South Bay | Registered: Dec 2001  |  :
04cobra408
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canada is looking better every singe day, huh aye? ( in canadian accent and not voto loco accent)

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Posts: 1945 | From: san jose ca | Registered: Jan 2004  |  :
50DADDY
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FUCK THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posts: 4827 | From: Suckramento | Registered: Jul 2003  |  :
1FAST93NOTCH
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quote:
Originally posted by NEIGHT:
quote:
Originally posted by 68dustin:
wow... [BS flag] how do these fucks come up with these ideas..

A middle school graduate can come up with better suggestions. Really charging a motherfucker for driving!?

Anyone wanna join my riot team?

+1

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1993 Red Notchback Production #: 29409
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TEAM TRUE FORGED

Posts: 672 | From: SSF | Registered: Mar 2011  |  :
SLOWBACK 67
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My work currently uses 4 class A trucks, 2 class B & one small bobtail every weekday to deliver food. We drive each truck on average 250 miles a day. That's on average 1750.00 a day we are going to be paying to the sate [BS flag]
Another thing 75% of our product come manufacturers from all over the country. At what point are THEY going to quit delivering product to Ca? ... Hell just to deliver frozen foods into Ca you have to have a CARB approved reefer unit on your truck. [BS flag] That means our laws are hurting other states too..... What one reefer unit cost could pay a salary for 6 months on the Ca min wage.

When you here about " Rich Buisness Owners " complaint about OVER REGULATION by the government. This is just one example of it.

Only way to change the state is to quit electing Dumb Fucks into office. Every choice you make voting DOES affect you. Even IF your told its only going to hurt RICH people. [BS flag]

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Originally posted by turbo50:
I have no intenions of keeping anyones parts or taking anyones money.

Posts: 8578 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Dec 2005  |  :
Poisond Pony
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I'm already long done with this state and it's ludicrous politics. I got a taste of the simpler life when I was in the Army and now the wife is convinced. Moving to Florida as soon as the lease is up! No emissions, no state tax, no bs politics. I'll take hurricanes I can prepare for over earthquakes any day!

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1997 SVT Cobra
very stock, very lame

Posts: 1089 | From: Portland, OR | Registered: Dec 2004  |  :


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